This capped thread on the forums caught my eye because I was wondering what they were talking about.
The nuts and bolts of it is that this 10 man raider is upset that 10 man groups are unable to do mythic raiding and that catering for a small amount of the WoW playing population - essentially, 20 man raiding guilds - hurts the population in general.
What I found interesting was the comment that "all those tight knit social bonds have been destroyed after they were built up for years." This is referring to the tight knit bonds of a 10 man.
When we started this expansion, we had come from doing Siege of Orgrimmar with 10 players to suddenly having a lot of people. A number of the players who did some of those 10 mans did not like that and wanted to have the "small" group back. The dynamics were good with that group, they said. Players were better. You knew who everyone was.
How quickly people forget how miserable it is when you have to sit people out. Obviously we had the goodwill of others sitting out for bosses they don't need but that isn't always the case. Sometimes people felt like they should sit out to make sure there was no drama.
I love how flex was applied to normal (now heroic). It meant that we could take everyone. No more sitting out. It was brilliant.
But then, came the mythic factor.
We were doing that level of difficulty in MoP on a 10 man level. Actually, we only did that for Siege of Orgrimmar. We did do some heroic level stuff in Cataclysm too in 10 man.
But we haven't done any mythic this expansion, and to be honest, I didn't want to. I still don't want to now. The flexibility is gone, and suddenly raiding will become a chore as we try to balance the numbers and the classes and the ranged/melee and we don't even have the numbers right now. I LIKE doing heroics, because that's fun and it fits in with my life timetable.
The people who are upset are those who WANT to do mythic but don't want to do it in a 20 man environment. Heroic 10 mans used to be the same as Heroic 25 mans. in MoP and prior. It was cool for the 10 man guilds back then but in reality, it's not fair. Heroic 25 should have better rewards. It's harder to organise and maintain. Sure, it may have been easier too with extra slack in the system, but having to tune a 10 man fight to be the same as a 25 man fight for the same rewards is extra work that wastes a lot of effort. I can understand why Blizzard took the two difficulties away and made it just one raid size. Only one difficulty to have to worry about and tune, instead of trying to balance it out for a 10 man and a 25 man. I'm trying to think of an equivalent real life analogy - say that I am a chef and I have to cook a special 5 course meal for a group of 10 people and also have to cook that same meal for 25 people. They're both the same food, and it's a special party course so I have to buy the right ingredients to make exactly the right number. Now, imagine I want to have an extra SPECIAL dinner course, that includes wine, and 20 souffles. There is exactly enough wine in 1 barrel for 20 people only, and so that special meal should be for 20 people. Sure, we can have less, but the cost of the meal with wine is $2000 ($100 per person). If you have less people then that's fine but that $2000 will have to be shared around whoever's left, so each person has to pay more. But with the regular 5 course meal without the special wine or souffle, we can have some dessert that you can keep serving up (maybe fruit platters) and some beer on tap, so you can bring as many friends as you want. Ok, a bit of a strange analogy there... but what I'm trying to say is that to get something special then you have to DO something special - and that is make sure you have 20 people who want to come to the party or you can't have this special menu. And if you want to bring less? Well you can, but it will cost you more. I guess the cost is the DPS/healing output in mythic so if you have less people you have to put out double the effort of what you were doing previously. And also, the chef is good at preparing for 20 people - they've got the ingredients and timing worked out just right. Throw in a 10 man party into the mix and now they have to spend extra time getting that set right AS WELL as the 20 man party set - it would be easier and work smoother if they just said we're doing it for a party of 20 and that's it. No exceptions.
Those people who would complain that the game is now "too easy" at the heroic level and need a mythic level to get satisfaction - what % do you think they are? And what % do you think are the number of people who couldn't get into raids before but NOW they can because of the flexible sized normal raiding that happens now? And that also means that raids can continue if people have a life and need to do RL things and miss a raid day or two or come late - yes that might make it "easier" but in reality, that is the way this game is going. All those hard core players are now grown up with jobs and families and don't have the time to commit to the game like they used to. The game has to change to fit those people too. The hard core stuff, mythic stuff, is still there, but surely there are WAY more people in the normal/heroic bracket that need catering to as well.
Those people who are upset with the raiding structure - well they would probably be unhappy either way and find some excuse to complain about something else. If they had their 10 man mythics they would be complaining that the encounter is too hard or something. And then they'd still be quitting the game, even if Blizzard had tried to accommodate them.
So, do you blame Blizzard for catering to those small amounts of people for mythics? Those guys who are serious about mythics are willing to pay Blizz for their server transfers and faction changing to get into the teams they want. And those who are complaining and not giving money to Blizz - well why would Blizz want to cater to you when you are not a customer who continues to support the game?
I think I may get a lot of disagreement but I like the way the raids are set out at the moment. It suits me, it suits my guild. I feel sorry for all that it doesn't suit, but there's no pleasing everyone!
The nuts and bolts of it is that this 10 man raider is upset that 10 man groups are unable to do mythic raiding and that catering for a small amount of the WoW playing population - essentially, 20 man raiding guilds - hurts the population in general.
What I found interesting was the comment that "all those tight knit social bonds have been destroyed after they were built up for years." This is referring to the tight knit bonds of a 10 man.
When we started this expansion, we had come from doing Siege of Orgrimmar with 10 players to suddenly having a lot of people. A number of the players who did some of those 10 mans did not like that and wanted to have the "small" group back. The dynamics were good with that group, they said. Players were better. You knew who everyone was.
How quickly people forget how miserable it is when you have to sit people out. Obviously we had the goodwill of others sitting out for bosses they don't need but that isn't always the case. Sometimes people felt like they should sit out to make sure there was no drama.
I love how flex was applied to normal (now heroic). It meant that we could take everyone. No more sitting out. It was brilliant.
But then, came the mythic factor.
We were doing that level of difficulty in MoP on a 10 man level. Actually, we only did that for Siege of Orgrimmar. We did do some heroic level stuff in Cataclysm too in 10 man.
But we haven't done any mythic this expansion, and to be honest, I didn't want to. I still don't want to now. The flexibility is gone, and suddenly raiding will become a chore as we try to balance the numbers and the classes and the ranged/melee and we don't even have the numbers right now. I LIKE doing heroics, because that's fun and it fits in with my life timetable.
The people who are upset are those who WANT to do mythic but don't want to do it in a 20 man environment. Heroic 10 mans used to be the same as Heroic 25 mans. in MoP and prior. It was cool for the 10 man guilds back then but in reality, it's not fair. Heroic 25 should have better rewards. It's harder to organise and maintain. Sure, it may have been easier too with extra slack in the system, but having to tune a 10 man fight to be the same as a 25 man fight for the same rewards is extra work that wastes a lot of effort. I can understand why Blizzard took the two difficulties away and made it just one raid size. Only one difficulty to have to worry about and tune, instead of trying to balance it out for a 10 man and a 25 man. I'm trying to think of an equivalent real life analogy - say that I am a chef and I have to cook a special 5 course meal for a group of 10 people and also have to cook that same meal for 25 people. They're both the same food, and it's a special party course so I have to buy the right ingredients to make exactly the right number. Now, imagine I want to have an extra SPECIAL dinner course, that includes wine, and 20 souffles. There is exactly enough wine in 1 barrel for 20 people only, and so that special meal should be for 20 people. Sure, we can have less, but the cost of the meal with wine is $2000 ($100 per person). If you have less people then that's fine but that $2000 will have to be shared around whoever's left, so each person has to pay more. But with the regular 5 course meal without the special wine or souffle, we can have some dessert that you can keep serving up (maybe fruit platters) and some beer on tap, so you can bring as many friends as you want. Ok, a bit of a strange analogy there... but what I'm trying to say is that to get something special then you have to DO something special - and that is make sure you have 20 people who want to come to the party or you can't have this special menu. And if you want to bring less? Well you can, but it will cost you more. I guess the cost is the DPS/healing output in mythic so if you have less people you have to put out double the effort of what you were doing previously. And also, the chef is good at preparing for 20 people - they've got the ingredients and timing worked out just right. Throw in a 10 man party into the mix and now they have to spend extra time getting that set right AS WELL as the 20 man party set - it would be easier and work smoother if they just said we're doing it for a party of 20 and that's it. No exceptions.
Those people who would complain that the game is now "too easy" at the heroic level and need a mythic level to get satisfaction - what % do you think they are? And what % do you think are the number of people who couldn't get into raids before but NOW they can because of the flexible sized normal raiding that happens now? And that also means that raids can continue if people have a life and need to do RL things and miss a raid day or two or come late - yes that might make it "easier" but in reality, that is the way this game is going. All those hard core players are now grown up with jobs and families and don't have the time to commit to the game like they used to. The game has to change to fit those people too. The hard core stuff, mythic stuff, is still there, but surely there are WAY more people in the normal/heroic bracket that need catering to as well.
Those people who are upset with the raiding structure - well they would probably be unhappy either way and find some excuse to complain about something else. If they had their 10 man mythics they would be complaining that the encounter is too hard or something. And then they'd still be quitting the game, even if Blizzard had tried to accommodate them.
So, do you blame Blizzard for catering to those small amounts of people for mythics? Those guys who are serious about mythics are willing to pay Blizz for their server transfers and faction changing to get into the teams they want. And those who are complaining and not giving money to Blizz - well why would Blizz want to cater to you when you are not a customer who continues to support the game?
I think I may get a lot of disagreement but I like the way the raids are set out at the moment. It suits me, it suits my guild. I feel sorry for all that it doesn't suit, but there's no pleasing everyone!